Transcription 

0:12

Welcome to the Feminist Park podcast.

I'm Kwame.

And I'm Leilani.

It's great to be kicking off this journey with you all today.

Yeah.

We're diving into work that's really closely tied to the vision behind the Feminist Park project, which was founded by Hussain Stuck.

That project's goal is pretty ambitious, isn't it?

0:28

Imagining these truly equitable public spaces, starting with the idea for an intersectional feminist park right here in Berlin.

Exactly.

And this podcast, well, it's kind of an extension of that.

We're going to be digging into the academic research that, you know, supports and informs that kind of vision.

0:46

We'll be taking these dense, sometimes quite academic papers and really pulling out the core and insights.

And looking at them through specific lenses.

Things like environmental justice, intersectionality, anti colonial thought, queer theory.

All the stuff that helps us think critically about space.

1:03

We're actually starting with some background research that Hussein came across early on, and it highlighted something, well, frankly quite jarring that the benefits we think we all get from urban green spaces, you know, parks and squares and thing like physical and mental well-being, they're often deeply gendered.

1:19

Meaning women and also gender diverse people.

They just don't get the same access or experience those benefits in the same way men do.

Right.

Less equitable access, fewer benefits.

It seems almost counterintuitive, doesn't it?

A park is just a park open to everyone.

1:35

OK.

Let's unpack this.

We're embarking on a deep dive into a topic that many of us probably don't give a second thought to until it becomes an urgent, desperate, undeniable need.

Public toilets.

And you might be raising an eyebrow thinking toilets really a deep dive.

But I promise you, this seemingly mundane, often ignored and even culturally hushed aspect of urban life is in fact a profoundly consequential indicator of social value, equity.

2:04

And who truly feels and is allowed to feel they belong in our public spaces?

Absolutely.

It sounds trivial, but it's anything but.

Let's cast our minds back to 2015 during a Democratic when Hillary Clinton's slightly delayed return to the stage due to a bathroom break became not just a moment of awkward television, but a national conversation.

2:23

I remember that.

What seems like a trivial aside quickly exposed the very real, very significant gender disparities in public facilities and the complex web of issues surrounding basic toilet access.

It highlighted how even the most powerful individuals can be impacted by inadequate infrastructure, revealing A profound societal oversight in what is at its core, a universal human need.

2:47

What's truly fascinating here is precisely how that seemingly trivial moment inadvertently brought to light a centuries old issue the historical neglect and systematic marginalization of public toilet provision by urban policy makers.

It's not new.

Not at all.

3:03

Despite their absolutely essential nature, for city users, they've often been an afterthought, relegated to the very bottom of urban planning priorities.

Like something embarrassing to deal with.

Exactly.

This isn't just about convenience.

It's a powerful lens through which to examine social justice today.

3:19

Our mission is to explore how these unseen spaces, public toilets, reflect and reinforce social hierarchies, and what this understanding means for designing truly liberated, inclusive urban environments like the concept of the feminist park.

That's a really important connection.

To guide us, we'll be drawing insights from three pivotal sources.

3:38

First, Clara Greed's Seminole 2003 book Inclusive Urban Design Public Toilets, which really laid the groundwork for understanding the systemic issues.

A foundational text.

Definitely, then, Judith Pelasco's critical 2016 article Taking a Break, Toilets, Gender and Disgust, which delves into the profound cultural dimensions.

3:59

Getting to the why behind the neglect.

Precisely and finally a comprehensive 2024 systematic review by Lukowitz and Gilliland titled A Feminist Critical Analysis of Public Toilets and Gender.

This latest research provides an intersectional framework using the United Nations human rights standards.

4:17

OK, so bringing it right up to date with a rights based approach.

Exactly Together, these sources will illuminate the path toward creating truly equitable public spaces.

That's it's a powerful stage.

Let's start with Clara Greed's foundational 2003 book for central argument is quite stark and frankly eye opening.

4:34

Public toilet provision is fundamentally inadequate, systematically marginalized, and consistently undervalued in urban planning.

It really is.

This is and just an inconvenience.

It leads to severe, disproportionate impacts, particularly on women and other vulnerable groups, ultimately hindering the creation of truly accessible, sustainable, and equitable cities.

4:56

Greed argues that this neglect isn't simply an oversight or funding problem.

It stems from deep seated historical, cultural and legislative factors that treat public toilets as a low status, almost embarrassing function rather than an integral high status component of modern urban design and strategic policy.

5:15

She called it latrine duty, didn't she?

She did.

She vividly describes it as being relegated to the equivalent of latrine duty, something nobody wants to acknowledge or fund properly.

If we connect this to the bigger picture, Greed's work truly highlights a pervasive, almost invisible societal blind spot.

5:31

She shares in her preface that her earlier research on women and planning consistently found the issue of toilets surfacing as a critical concern.

So it kept coming up organically.

Yeah, again and again, women, especially those navigating the city with small children, managing elderly dependents, or simply with different biological needs, repeatedly found their ability to use and engage with urban spaces severely limited by the sheer lack of public conveniences.

5:57

That must have been incredibly frustrating for them.

And telling she sees this as a true indicator of the lack of progress in women's position in society, despite decades of calls for equal opportunities.

Wow, that's a strong statement.

It's a powerful, almost unsettling statement that even with so much talk about equality and inclusion, this basic, vital human need remains fundamentally unaddressed in our built environments.

6:22

So, building on Greed's foundation, then Judas Plasko's 2016 article Taking a Break, Toilets, Gender and Disgust deepens this argument.

How?

Well, Plasco really digs into the profound cultural discomfort, almost a revulsion, surrounding bodily elimination.

6:39

Yuck factor, basically.

Pretty much.

She unpacks how this discomfort isn't neutral.

It intricately intertwines with existing social hierarchies, actively shaping policy and public perception and making equitable access incredibly difficult to achieve.

So it's not just about plumbing, it's about prejudice.

6:56

Exactly.

Then we have the most recent piece, Lukovitz and Gilliland's 2024 Systematic Review, a Feminist Critical Analysis of public toilets and Gender.

This paper provides A comprehensive intersectional analysis using the United Nations Human Rights framework, specifically focusing on availability, accessibility, affordability, quality and safety, and acceptability, privacy and dignity.

7:21

OK, that's a clear structure.

To assess current toilet provision globally across North America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

Crucially, this review doesn't just document the problem.

It explicitly aims for social transformation and policy change, giving us a clear, actionable lens through which to examine these issues and connect them directly to the vision of the Feminist Park.

7:41

Excellent.

So that framework seems like the perfect way to structure our discussion.

Let's use those UN criteria from Lukovitz and Gilliland as our guide.

We'll start with availability.

Makes sense?

The absolute basics.

The sheer lack of public toilets is an incredibly pervasive problem, often going unseen until you or someone you care for desperately needs one.

8:04

We've all been there, haven't we?

That desperate search.

Absolutely.

It's not just that they're hard to find, it's that there's a general systemic under provision of public toilets due to chronic neglect, lack of funding and the ongoing closure of existing facilities, as Greed pointed out back in 2003.

8:21

And it hasn't necessarily gotten better since then.

Right.

She mentions how even well located facilities like those at Bustling Bus Termini have been callously demolished or simply not replaced.

This isn't a momentary oversight, it's a sustained policy failure.

And that general under provision has very specific, very disproportionate impacts across different groups.

8:41

Let's look at the feminist and gender perspective.

Women and girls consistently expressed profound concern about this lack of availability.

To not enough places to go.

Exactly.

And when facilities do exist, they often face frustratingly longer wait lines compared to men.

The infamous cue.

8:57

Right.

And this isn't just about patience.

It's about lost time, missed appointments maybe, and a feeling of being undervalued.

Beyond just the number of stalls, there's often an insufficient provision of basic amenities like soap paper products and cruise menstrual hygiene facilities.

9:14

Things you just expect to be there.

You'd think so, but Morocco and colleagues highlighted this stark reality in a Manhattan survey, finding only 24% had menstrual hygiene bins and none offered free products.

None.

That's shocking.

It is.

This isn't a luxury, it's a basic health necessity.

9:31

OK, so shifting to a queer theory perspective, how does availability impact trans and gender nonconforming people?

Well, the staircity of gender neutral toilets is a significant and distressing concern for them.

Finding a safe, appropriate space is a major challenge.

A huge challenge.

9:47

Imagine being a trans man who menstruates, maybe having to navigate gender segregated women's washrooms just to access menstrual hygiene amenities while potentially facing misgendering or discomfort.

It's a profound barrier and a constant source of anxiety.

10:03

That sounds incredibly stressful.

Then, from a class and socioeconomic perspective, people experiencing homelessness face immense barriers and finding public toilets at all, they often have no other recourse than public urination or defecation.

Which then gets them into trouble.

Exactly.

10:18

It exposes them to further criminalization and stigmatization, and this issue is significantly compounded for those who menstruate and need to manage their hygiene without private sanitary facilities.

This isn't a simple inconvenience.

It's a daily dehumanizing struggle.

10:34

The behavioral impacts of this lack of availability are truly striking, aren't they?

It shows how this fundamental need forces people to alter their lives and restrict their freedom.

Completely, Lukovitz and Gilliland highlight that women, girls, and gender nonconforming individuals often significantly change how they use public How so?

10:51

Well, women might resort to discreetly using men's washrooms out of desperation or, more commonly, simply avoid public toilets altogether if they can't count on basic amenities or feel safe.

So they limit their time out maybe?

Exactly.

Picture a mother with a young child on a day out, forced to cut her out and short because there isn't a single suitable, clean and accessible public restroom insight.

11:15

This is a common reality.

And for transgender youth?

The impact is even more severe, according to the research.

They might restrict their fluid intake, which is incredibly unhealthy.

Oh wow.

Limit public outings entirely and hold their toileting needs for uncomfortably and unhealthily long periods, which can lead to serious physical health issues like UTI's.

11:35

That's awful just to avoid potential confrontation or lack of facilities.

Yes, and adults in the transgender and gender nonconforming community often plan specific circuitous routes through cities not for sightseeing, but solely to access known safe facilities rather than simply moving freely and spontaneously.

11:53

That's.

Like living with a constant map of anxiety.

It is.

This isn't just an inconvenience, it's a profound restriction on their full and equal participation in public life, reducing their ability to work, socialize, and exist comfortably in their own communities.

This raises an important question then How can we truly aspire to have vibrant, equitable, and inclusive public spaces if such a fundamental human need forces people to alter their behavior, restrict their movement, or even risk their health?

12:24

It's impossible, really, and greed makes a crucial point here, noting that historically men have effectively had twice as much provision as women if you count urinals alongside traditional stalls.

Right, the space calculation is different.

And they also take significantly less time to use facilities, an average of 35 seconds compared to women's 91 seconds, according to some studies she cites.

12:45

Which explains the cues.

Precisely this glaring disparity directly fueled calls for potty parity.

However, it's vital to understand that potty parity initially meant merely an equal number of stalls.

Just matching numbers.

Yes, but as Greed's work, and indeed the broader feminist perspective reveals, true equitable provision means something far more nuanced.

13:06

It demands potentially more facilities for women, not just due to biological factors like menstruation and pregnancy, but also social factors like the common role of caregivers for children or the elderly, which requires more space and time.

So equal isn't always equitable.

Exactly.

13:21

For the Feminist Park to be truly liberated, it must tackle availability head on and move beyond outdated notions of equality to embrace true equity.

What does that look like in practice?

It means designing for an abundance of well distributed, clearly marked and fully equipped toilets that anticipate diverse user needs.

13:40

We're talking about preventing these behavioral restrictions and promoting full, unhindered participation for everyone.

OK, Crucially, this goes beyond simply an equal number of stalls.

It means an equitable number for cisgender women, alongside ample gender neutral options that are self-contained and universally designed and comprehensive menstrual hygiene management facilities that are freely accessible to all who meet them, including trans men.

14:04

So truly inclusive by design, yes.

It's about ensuring that the very question of finding a toilet doesn't become a barrier to enjoying the park and experiencing true urban freedom.

That makes perfect sense.

An equitable approach to availability is foundational.

14:21

But even when toilets exist, you mentioned, accessibility is often a mirage.

Barriers could be temporal, physical or social.

Let's tackle temporal barriers first.

Right Lukovitz and Gilliland really highlight this.

For people experiencing homelessness, facilities not being open at night or even during expected hours is a major, often cruel struggle.

14:42

Especially if you're menstruating like you mentioned.

Absolutely.

Imagine being left with no option for a basic human need overnight in the cold.

A Manhattan audit they cited found only four facilities open 2007 365.

Only four and all of.

Yes, and all located inside public buildings that aren't always comfortable or safe to access for vulnerable populations.

15:03

The pervasive lack of consistent year round access, particularly in colder seasons, disproportionately effects these individuals.

And then there's the issue of them being locked or broken.

Right.

Adding to the frustration and often despair, locked or vandalized toilets are simply useless, and the common unfortunate solution often defaults to permanent closure rather than addressing the underlying issues of maintenance, safety or community neglect.

15:28

Just give up on it.

Pretty much.

Which leads us directly into the profound physical design barriers that plague our public toilets.

Both Greed and Lukovitz and Gilliland meticulously describe how the very design itself often creates exclusion.

15:43

How so from a feminist and gender perspective?

Think about small, narrow cubicles with inward opening doors.

A design choice that seems minor, maybe, but makes maneuvering incredibly difficult.

Add to that the lack of space further reduced by disposal containers for sanitary products, and the experience becomes a struggle for many women, particularly when pregnant or managing a physical limitation.

16:05

Or if you have kids with you.

Exactly.

Caregivers, predominantly women, often struggle immensely with maneuvering A stroller, a small child, or an elderly individual in these cramped, thoughtlessly designed spaces.

And from an ableism and disability justice perspective.

Oh, the problem is even more pronounced.

16:21

Greed vividly points out that underground toilets with steep, slippery steps are inherently and cruelly inaccessible.

Obvious death traps sometimes.

Right.

And Plasco adds that supposedly ADA compliant facilities frequently fall short.

In practice, they might be located up multiple steps or double as storage rooms for mops and high chairs.

16:42

A storage.

Room.

Yes, or have doors too narrow for wheelchairs.

These are not minor inconveniences, They are outright denials of access.

Greed argues that even dedicated disabled facilities are often insufficient and need a far more inclusive universal design agenda that anticipates A wider spectrum of needs rather than a tokenistic nod to compliance.

17:04

Universal design benefits.

Everyone doesn't.

It it really does.

So beyond a purely physical, there are these profound social and identity barriers that make accessibility A deeply fraud issue.

Definitely.

Plasco and Lukovitz and Gillingland clearly articulate how sex segregated lavatories inherently reinforce the gender binary, making them literal sites of exclusion, distress, and even danger for trans and gender nonconforming people.

17:27

How does that danger manifest?

Well, trans individuals frequently face surveillance, that feeling of being watched and judged, harassment outright, the Nile of access, verbal abuse with slurs like homo or aggressive commands to get out, and in the worst cases, even physical attacks.

17:45

That's terrifying just to use a bathroom.

It is this relentless abuse isn't only psychologically damaging, inflicting deep emotional scars, but also leads to severe physical health issues from holding in toileting needs and tragically forces them to alter their travel patterns and avoid entire public spaces, thus diminishing their presence and participation in society.

18:06

And then you have things like the bathroom bills.

Exactly.

We've also witnessed the deeply divisive emergence of bathroom bills in some U.S. states, which criminalize using facilities that don't match one's assigned birth gender.

These laws create a climate of fear and suspicion.

18:22

So even if a facility exists, it's legally inaccessible or dangerous.

Precisely, and while inclusive signage like multi gender pictograms is a positive step forward, it's often insufficient given the public's ingrained tendency to police gender in these spaces, transforming a simple act into a confrontational 1.

18:40

People appointing themselves gender police.

Unfortunately, yes, it's quite telling and a missed opportunity for broader inclusion that the first unisex public toilet in the UK in 1964 was built specifically for disabled people, not explicitly to accommodate gender non conforming individuals, underscoring how often marginalized groups are considered in isolation rather than together.

19:04

That's a really interesting historical footnote.

Here's where it gets really interesting.

Historically speaking, the evolution of women's bathroom access closely mirrors their changing social status.

Plasco highlights that until quite recently, the complete absence of women's toilets and halls of power like the US Supreme Court, Senate and House of Representatives wasn't just an oversight, it clearly signaled their profound exclusion from these spaces.

19:28

But you don't belong here.

Exactly.

Imagine Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, when she joined the Supreme Court in 1981, having no private restroom unlike every one of her male colleagues, and having a barrel one from staff.

That's unbelievable.

It wasn't until 1992 that women in the the Senate finally got toilets near the floor and a staggering 2011 for the House.

19:49

This isn't just historical trivia.

It vividly illustrates how urban design, down to the most intimate spaces, reflects who holds power, who is deemed to belong and whose needs are prioritized.

That really brings it home.

And greed also brings a crucial legislative context to the fore, explaining that laws governing local authority provision of public toilets are often permissive rather than mandatory.

20:13

Meaning they can provide them, but don't have to.

Exactly.

The seemingly minor legal distinction has severe real world consequences, hindering progress by making toilet provision vulnerable to budget cuts, lack of political priority, and the slow, insidious erosion of public facilities that greed so expertly documents.

20:30

So for the Feminist Park, what's the take away accessibility?

It has to genuinely embody liberation by integrating these historical and systemic lessons.

It needs to embrace truly universal design principles. 247365 operation, clearly visible and easily reachable locations and spacious, thoughtfully designed cubicles that genuinely accommodate all users, including caregivers with children or those assisting elders.

20:58

And critically and critically, it must feature truly gender neutral, self-contained facilities that respect identity and privacy without reinforcing the binary or marginalizing anyone.

The signage must be genuinely welcoming and inclusive, conveying a message that everyone is valued and accommodated, actively dismantling the historical and ongoing barriers we've discussed.

21:19

That deep dive into accessibility truly underscores how deliberate we must be in our design choices.

Now let's move on to affordability.

Right, because access shouldn't come with a price tag.

Access to toilets should, without question be considered a fundamental human right, but too often it comes with a price, whether that price is visible or invisible, creating yet another insidious layer of exclusion.

21:39

We see the visible ones like the pay to pee turnstiles, greed mention or direct charges some places still have.

Yeah, those are obvious barriers, but Lukovitz and Gilliland also revealed the significant impact of invisible fees.

What do they mean by that?

Well, the pervasive lack of free public options often forces people to buy products or services in commercial settings.

22:02

Think buying a coffee and a cafe or a snack in a restaurant.

Just access a toilet.

The customer only policy.

Exactly.

This disproportionately impacts those with frequent coilating needs, like individuals with medical conditions, children or the elderly, and critically, those with limited incomes.

22:20

It's effectively a tax on a basic bodily function.

And this invisible fee is deeply intertwined with class and socioeconomic disparities, isn't it?

Completely Lugovitz and Gilliland highlight how individuals experiencing homelessness cannot always afford to buy this access and often face gatekeeping or outright denial of an entry, especially if their appearance or circumstances don't conform to societal standards of commercial patronage.

22:44

So you're judged before you even ask.

Right and Morocco's audit in Manhattan uncovered A disturbing trend.

Public toilets equipped with essential menstrual hygiene products were predominantly located in higher income, higher rent areas.

So the resources.

Follow the money seems so.

23:01

Conversely, lower income areas, particularly those with higher concentrations of Latinx people, were significantly less likely to have well serviced public toilet facilities, exacerbating existing resource disadvantages and highlighting systemic inequalities in urban infrastructure.

23:17

That's a clear environmental justice issue right there.

Absolutely.

And this is an accidental, it reflects deeper systemic issues.

Furthermore, there's been a historical and worrying shift from robust municipal provision of public toilets funded through public taxes for public good, to an increasing reliance on the private sector.

23:35

Privatizing a public need.

Greed argues powerfully that this shift reflects patriarchal structures and decision making that do not adequately take into consideration the impacts and exclusion of women, girls, trans, and gender nonconforming people.

What's fascinating here, and deeply troubling, is how profoundly intertwined availability and affordability are.

23:56

When public provision is reduced, the financial burden, whether visible or invisible, falls disproportionately on those who are already marginalized.

Makes sense?

And the problem of private corporate interests influencing public facilities is also seen in the reinforcement of women as consumers through advertising within these spaces, rather than being seen as citizens with a right to basic facilities.

24:18

So for the feminist park, the stance on affordability has to be.

Unwavering.

A clear, unwavering commitment.

Free and Open Access to all its facilities, its design and funding must explicitly reject reliance on the private sector for this basic human right, ensuring that no one is excluded due to their economic status or appearance.

24:38

Absolutely.

Ensuring free access is non negotiable for a truly inclusive space.

Moving on to quality and safety.

Which are so closely linked the.

Quality and safety of public toilets are not merely about whether they're clean or well maintained.

They are fundamentally about trust, dignity and freedom from fear.

24:55

Yeah, that feeling you get when you approach one.

Lukovitz and Gilliland highlight that perceived safety heavily influences whether women, trans and gender nonconforming people will even use facilities regardless of whether they have a personal history of assault.

So the fear is real even without direct experience.

25:14

Exactly.

Imagine the constant calculation people make before entering such a space.

Factors like the overall layout, the level of privacy, and crucially, the ability to securely lock a door are intrinsically linked to feelings of safety for trans people.

You need to feel secure inside.

25:30

Right, the location of a toilet.

Weather is hidden away, poorly lit or remote also significantly impacts these feelings of security or lack thereof.

Even vandalism, as Kuhn ET All found, is directly connected to feelings of unsafety, signaling neglect and potential danger.

25:46

A broken lock or graffiti feels threatening.

It does, and this perceived unsafety is unfortunately often rooted in very real experiences of harassment and violence from a queer theory perspective.

This is where it gets particularly harsh.

Trans and gender nonconforming people commonly experienced deeply distressing situations, verbal harassment, aggressive gazing, being directly told to leave, followed or outright confronted while attempting to use public toilets.

26:14

Just awful levels of hostility.

Yes, this relentless abuse isn't just emotional trauma.

It directly leads to physical health issues from holding in, toileting needs.

And tragically, it significantly impacts how they travel through public spaces, forcing them to restrict their movements and lives.

26:31

Do gender neutral toilets help here?

The research suggests strongly yes.

Colliver and Duffus consistently note that gender neutral toilets are widely cited as a profoundly safer and more welcoming alternative for trans and gender nonconforming individuals.

OK, it's also crucial to directly address the false narrative often perpetuated that trans women pose a risk to cisgender women, a narrative frequently used to argue against gender inclusive washrooms.

26:56

Despite a complete lack of evidence, these fear mongering tactics actively undermine efforts for inclusive design.

We have to call that out.

Beyond harassment, there's the critical issue of cleanliness, and it's linked to health.

A huge concern for many, especially women, cleanliness is often a top concern.

27:13

So much, though, that it frequently leads to avoidance, or the uncomfortable and unhygienic practice of hovering over seats.

Which isn't great for you either, right?

No, it can ironically impact bladder health and lead to infections.

Busy restrooms are frequently associated with being less clean, with common issues like urine on seats and floors, overflowing garbage and even insects.

27:35

And even in gender neutral toilets, concerns about cleanliness can persist, sometimes due to cultural perceptions or practical issues like men's urine on the floor.

Highlighting the design alone isn't enough.

Ongoing maintenance and user education are also vital.

That makes me wonder then, how do we design spaces that actively combat these deeply ingrained fears, biases, and practical challenges, truly ensuring quality and safety for all users?

27:59

Well, greed describes the problem of crime and vandalism being exacerbated in poorly designed hidden facilities, and the chronic lack of attendance further contributes to this sense of unsafety and neglect.

Visibility matters.

Immensely and Plasco also dives into how the deep seated discourses of discomfort and disgust surrounding bodily functions are not just personal feelings, they actively reinforce social inequality.

28:22

She points out that those defined as shit are often precisely the people denied adequate toilet access.

The socially abject are excluded from toilets as abject space.

That's a powerful quote linking disgust to social exclusion.

It is this cultural projection of disgust onto marginalized groups makes the design challenge even more complex and emotionally charged.

28:43

So for the feminist park, quality and safety need to be.

Paramount design into the very fabric of the facility is not treated as an afterthought.

This means intelligent design, good bright lighting, clear sight lines both within and approaching the facilities to deter illicit activities, public visibility and the use of robust, easy to clean materials that deter vandalism.

29:04

And maintenance.

Constant proactive active maintenance and potentially even staffing or community monitoring to ensure ongoing upkeep and a sense of safety.

Critically, gender neutral self-contained units are recommended as best practice to enhance safery and privacy for everyone, moving beyond simply adapting existing gender segregated facilities.

29:25

Why are adaptations often problematic?

Because they often create more problems for women, according to Anthony and Dufresne, by not fully addressing their specific needs or concerns about shared spaces, These self-contained units, featuring full, opaque walls, individual locks and their own sinks, are key to creating genuinely safe, hygienic and respectful spaces that embody trust.

29:46

That makes a lot of sense.

OK, the final UN criterion, acceptability, privacy and dignity.

And this really ties everything together, doesn't it?

It seems to toileting is a deeply private and intimate act, intrinsically connected to our fundamental sense of dignity.

Yet public toilets often strip individuals of this fundamental human right.

30:05

Yeah, the lack of privacy is a major issue highlighted by Lukovitz in Gilliland.

From a feminist and gender perspective, women with urinary conditions like overactive bladder often avoid public toilets due to intense concerns about passing gas, making noise or experiencing diarrhea.

30:22

Things people feel really self-conscious about.

Exactly leading to profound self consciousness and isolation.

The general lack of privacy also severely limits women's ability to use public toilets for other essential hygiene needs, like discreetly managing menstrual products, or for those experiencing homelessness, for more extensive needs like bathing or laundering.

30:44

And the design itself contributes.

Absolutely.

Skulls with large revealing gaps between doors or at the top and bottom contribute significantly to feelings of surveillance and judgement, particularly for those managing menstrual hygiene, creating a sense of being exposed and vulnerable.

30:59

Those gaps are terrible.

Do you feel like someone's watching?

They really are, and the cumulative impact on dignity is immense and often devastating.

Lukovitz and Gilliland note that for menstruating people experiencing homelessness, the inability to manage menstruation privately and hygienically is a direct and profound affront to their dignity, making them feel unclean and utterly unseen by society.

31:22

Heartbreaking.

Beyond this specific group, the constant risk of accidents due to a lack of available clean and private facilities is a profound blow to dignity for everyone, but particularly for women, girls, trans and gender nonconforming people who, unlike cisgender men, often cannot just go anywhere without fear, judgement or physical risks.

31:43

Right now, from a queer theory perspective, you mentioned gender identity.

Affirmation is critical here.

Absolutely gender neutral toilets are consistently described not just as practical solutions, but as a profound affirmation of identity and expression of feeling included for gender nonconforming people.

31:58

A space where they are recognized and belong.

Exactly.

A space where one doesn't have to choose a binary identity that doesn't fit.

However, the location and design choices still matter deeply.

If gender neutral toilets are placed on a separate floor, made inconveniently distant, or are poorly maintained, it can inadvertently reinforce the other ring of trans and gender nonconforming individuals, negating their intended benefit.

32:22

So intention isn't enough, execution matters.

Definitely.

Furthermore, bathroom bills, with their discriminatory signs indicating opposite sex maybe in the restroom, are a clear, active example of reinforcing harmful beliefs and undermining the dignity and very existence of trans and gender nonconforming individuals.

32:41

Actively promoting hostility.

Yes, Lukovitz and Gilliland suggest practical solutions for enhancing privacy, like floors, ceiling walls for stalls, better locks that clearly indicate occupancy, and entirely eliminating gaps.

Installs simple design choices with enormous impact on human dignity.

32:57

Things that should be standard, really.

You would think so.

So what does this all mean for how we perceive and design public spaces?

The deep seated shame and disgust surrounding bodily functions, as highlighted by Plasco, is absolutely central to why dignity is so often compromised in public toilets.

33:15

That cultural discomfort?

Again, Yes.

This pervasive cultural discomfort isn't benign.

It often projects what she calls the rejected part of the self onto marginalized groups, creating a societal scapegoat.

Linking bodily functions to social otherness.

33:30

Precisely the absence of adequate toilet access actively prevents full participation in public life and forces people into undignified compromises that only reinforce perceptions of their objection, a situation vividly illustrated by the experiences of homeless people who are forced to relieve themselves in public and then face further criminalization and stigmatization.

33:50

It creates A vicious cycle of exclusion.

So for the Feminist Park, how do we design in dignity?

Dignity must be absolutely fundamental, a non negotiable principle.

This means providing self-contained, fully lockable units with full opaque walls, comprehensive amenities including menstrual hygiene products and baby changing stations, and clear, inclusive signage that affirms all identities.

34:15

Creating a truly respectful environment.

Yes, the feminist parks toilets should be a place where everyone feels respected, safe and able to manage their bodily needs without shame, fear or judgement.

Actively challenging and dismantling the societal norms around disgust and exclusion that have historically plagued public facilities.

34:34

It's about creating an environment where privacy is not just a feature, but a guaranteed right and dignity is upheld for every single user without exception.

OK, bringing all these crucial threads together, then, it's incredibly clear how this deep dive into the often unseen world of public toilets profoundly informs the grand vision for the feminist park.

34:53

It really does crystallize the need, doesn't it?

This extensive research unequivocally dictates that the feminist park must move far beyond traditional patriarchal urban planning that for too long has systemically overlooked these basic human needs, deeming them unworthy of investment or consideration.

35:12

It has to be different.

Instead, it must adopt what greed calls joined up thinking and a truly holistic approach to public facilities, ensuring they are central, not peripheral, to the parks design and ongoing operation.

Absolutely.

The systemic exclusion, the harrowing harassment, the demonstrable health impacts, and the profound erosion of dignity highlighted by all three sources, greed, Plasco and Lukovitz and Gilliland validate the absolute, undeniable necessity of creating spaces designed from a truly inclusive, intersectional perspective.

35:44

It justifies the whole project in a way.

It really does.

This isn't a luxury item for a progressive city, it's a fundamental human right.

The Feminist Park isn't just a nice idea, it's an urgent, tangible response to documented injustices and deeply entrenched inequalities in our urban fabric.

36:00

So it's design has to actively counteract these problems.

Yes, actively counteract the issues of under provision by ensuring an abundance of well maintained, easily accessible facilities.

It needs to overcome gendered abliest classist and queer phobic exclusion by prioritizing universal design principles, offering 247365 access, guaranteeing completely free access, and providing safe, dignified, self-contained, gender neutral facilities for all.

36:30

And tackle the cultural piece too.

Crucially, it must actively challenge cultural discomfort and shame by designing spaces that normalize bodily functions and explicitly prioritize privacy, dignity, and respect for every individual who steps through its doors.

This research also provides the essential theoretical and historical context for the feminist part, doesn't it?

36:49

We've gained that historical understanding of neglect from greed, the robust theoretical framework of intersectionality from Lukovitz and Gilliland, and a critical understanding of the politics of disgust from Plaskow.

Against this backdrop, the Feminist Park emerges not just as a counter narrative, but is a tangible, living, breathing solution for urban liberation.

37:08

It's proof of concept, almost.

Exactly.

It demonstrates with undeniable clarity the designing for these often overlooked and undervalued spaces isn't a minor detail in urban planning.

It's a profound, eloquent statement about a community's true values and it's unwavering commitment to genuine equity and human rights.

37:29

If we connect this to the bigger picture, this isn't simply about building more toilets within the feminist park.

It's about fundamentally rethinking how urban spaces are conceived, designed, managed and indeed valued.

A paradigm shift.

Yes, it's about embedding social justice from the micro level of designing A robust, accessible toilet roll holder to the macro level of citywide strategic policy that prioritizes human needs over cost cutting.

37:54

That's a great way to put it.

Micro to macro.

The ultimate goal is to create a park where the question of where I go becomes complete non issue, a historical relic of a less inclusive time.

This freedom allows all users, women, gender diverse individuals, caregivers, the elderly, people with disabilities, people experiencing homelessness, and racialized communities to participate fully, joyfully, and without fear or discomfort.

38:17

Which is the whole point of public space.

Exactly and Lukovitz and Gilliland provide an excellent and comprehensive blueprint for the feminist parks facilities.

Self-contained, accessible, gender neutral toilets with their own door locks, occupied status, full walls, sinks, bins, diapering facilities and menstrual hygiene facilities are the best ways to meet the needs of all people.

38:39

That's the gold standard.

This is the standard.

This is the vision for true urban liberation.

We've journeyed through how public toilets, often dismissed, ignored or even ridiculed, are actually critical sites where social power, deep seated inequality and fundamental human dignity play out in our daily lives.

38:57

It's been quite a journey, hasn't it?

It really has.

This deep dive has highlighted a significant, pervasive gap in urban planning that demands our immediate and sustained attention, especially as we envision truly inclusive public spaces like the Feminist Park.

This raises an important question for all of us.

39:13

Given the centuries of historical neglect and the deeply cultural aspects of disgust and shame surrounding bodily functions, what will it truly take to achieve what greed called a restroom revolution and fundamentally change how society views and provides for this basic human need?

39:31

It feels like a monumental task.

It requires more than just infrastructure.

It demands A radical shift in mindset, A willingness to confront uncomfortable truths and sustained political will.

We also need to reflect on the power of these unseen spaces.

What other elements of our built environment which we often take for granted might also be silently reinforcing inequality and exclusion in ways we haven't yet considered.

39:56

That's a great question.

What else are we missing as you go about your day?

Consider how your own daily experiences in public spaces are subtly shaped by the availability or glaring lack of inclusive public toilets.

Pay attention next time you're out.

Yeah, what hidden barriers or privileges have you encountered, or perhaps not even noticed until now, that impact your freedom to simply be, to move, and to exist comfortably in public?

40:19

That makes you think differently.

So here's a provocative thought for you to carry forward.

If a society's true commitment to equality, social inclusion and sustainability can be genuinely measured by the quality and accessibility of its most private public spaces, it's public toilets.

40:36

How would your city fare today?

That's a tough one for many places.

And looking ahead, what radical, liberating designs would you champion for tomorrow's public spaces to truly reflect the values of a just and equitable community?

Remember, the design of our most private public spaces often reflects the true, unspoken values of our communities.

40:56

This knowledge is a tool really, a tool for seeing your city differently and potentially for helping to change it.

It's been a really insightful deep dive.

I think this document provides such a vital framework, especially for projects like the Feminist Park Project that are trying to build something fundamentally different.

41:12

It shows just how interlinked urban design and social justice are.

It really does, but it also shows the scale of the challenge right?

It requires sustained effort, real commitment and a genuine willingness to shift power dynamics in how cities get made and managed.

Definitely see.

41:29

Think about how we ensure those voices, the ones that have been excluded, are actually heard and centered.

There's another quote from Sarah Ahmed in the Handbook that feels relevant here.

Go on, she says.

If you have to shout to be heard, you are heard as shouting.

41:46

That's powerful.

It makes you ponder, doesn't it?

How can the design of public space itself work differently?

How can it amplify the voices of those who've been historically silenced, ensuring their needs are met without them having to shout just to be noticed?

How can design itself listen?

42:01

That's a really provocative thought to end on.

A lot to think about.

Indeed, thanks for joining us for this deep dive.